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Kayaman
Posts:2,521
Registered: 7/18/01
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Sorry 'bout the ruse gentlemen (the topic I mean)
This forum doesn't seem to be very popular, I guess Java3d isn't used THAT much then.
Or are you just the quiet sort?
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genus1
Posts:39
Registered: 9/12/99
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Anything could be useless or useful depending on your application. This forum does not always attract the most active programmers - quite frankly because most of them like myself are so excited and busy programming Java3D we do not have time to visit.
First, what do you want to do with Java3D? If you want to do like I am doing, controlling 16,000 squares each with boundries on all four sides, each with sound and each with four links to executable programs and 100MB of graphics tied to full featured multimedia advertised in a virtual city that can turn so fast you get dizzy on a 3 year old ATI Rage Fury with a 450MHz Pentium running as an APPLICATION, then I guess it is okay. (PS the entire program is only 46KB less pictures, audio and the runtime for Java2, Java3D and DirectX.)
If you are trying to run a 1MB ten frame cartoon down a 28K modem to a 486 60MHZ computer as an Applet then you may have some unhappy customers.
By the way what 3D program are you running from other companies "down the internet"? One of the best is Ultima Online but you need someone to deliver 3 CD's that run as an application not an applet.
Second if you want to take a 4MB ten second multimedia video and compress it to under 300KB and make a Java Applet out of it then I guess that should be okay also.
As I said in the beginning, what do you want to do with Java3D and maybe someone can advise you if it is possible.
Normally I do not answer such questions but I am curious why or for what purpose you would post a question worded this way? You are not going to convience someone to change to a different language, people are here to discuss java. Even if they did change language what would you benefit? By the way I program in or have programmed in virtually every language and still do. My current project uses four languages each with their specific benefit.
There is an old Chinese saying, "You know what you know, you know what you don't know, but you don't know what you don't know." A wise man (or woman) does not base their life, interaction, financial decisions or other matters on the third statement of the above saying.
Have a great day and I hope you find the answer in life you are looking for young grasshopper.
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Hello genus1
I came to saw ur response for a Q of a grossgropher,
Good argument !. i am a stranger to java3d(not in java). i badly need ur assisting only to install java 3d sdk.
could u give tips/procedures of installation to taste juice of 3d.
thanx.
With Regards,
-karthi
t_karthi@yahoo.com
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Kayaman
Posts:2,521
Registered: 7/18/01
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The topic does not reflect my views, it was meant for a teaser, so people would read my post. However it seems that this forum doesn't have the same amount of traffic as the others. It was simply a test to see how actively people write here and was not meant to offend anyone.
I personally like to do everything the hard way, by which I mean the before I might even consider moving to Java3d, I'll code my routines by hand. Also by doing that I'm able to create effects not in the Java3d api (i.e. Phong Shading and environment mapping).
Regards,
Jussi
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besJ
Posts:26
Registered: 5/10/01
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karthi, to install J3D you will first need to download the SDK from the Sun homepage, here is the link:
http://java.sun.com/products/java-media/3D/download.html
Select whether you want to get the DirectX or GL versions, I guess depending on your video card. Then simply run the installer. Oh, if you have Windows ME, then the installer may not work, from what I know this ia a known bug. In that case, the installation may be more complicated.
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genus1
Posts:39
Registered: 9/12/99
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My best advice for learning Java3D is to follow the tutorial and the examples. The sun developers and other contributors have done an excellet job covering most of the issues.
My next advice would be to get a good Java development tool like Borland J+ Buildier. Next you need to configure the developer to the version of Java you are using. Almost all of this will install automatically and work if you use the default directories. (I never have figured out why people like to install programs in other than the suggested directory.) You can bet the programmer used the default directories during development.
My third advice would be to pick a specific area of Java3D that you would be interested in. Java is so huge that no one can do it all right of the top.
Good luck. Sorry I do not have time to help on most issues. There are only so many hours in a day.
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genus1
Posts:39
Registered: 9/12/99
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Jussi,
I have seen you posts in many forums and you appear reasonably intelligent. Why would you need to code everything by hand (whatever that means) before shifting to Java3D?
My last project produced a killer 3D application but I design the entire world outside Java3D because Jave3D is not designed for that type of input. That does not make Java3D bad nor does it make the other program good for Java3D.
I used to code artificial intelligence on 2K of ram and a 56K floppy disk that rivaled Miasim but what is the use today when the market is saturated with 500MHz processors with 256MB of ram and Nvidia video cards?
I have a van and I have a sports car. Why would I take the family camping with the sports car? What I am saying is, use your talents where they are best utilized. If you like tweaking bits, why don't you join a video card manufacturer and program the hardware registers? Maybe you could develop a breakthrough that will allow more people to see my product and others.
Respectfully
Roger
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Kayaman
Posts:2,521
Registered: 7/18/01
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Jussi,
I have seen you posts in many forums and you appear
reasonably intelligent.
Thanks I guess ;)
Why would you need to code
everything by hand (whatever that means) before
shifting to Java3D?
Actually I don't "need to" as much as I "want to", I'm an ex assembly and C programmer (on dos), and I never got too excited about using other people's code. Java3D is a high level API, and while I believe that it is both easy to use and fast, I have an 'oldskool' streak in me, that makes me do illogical stuff. So even if I could write 'drawGouraudShadedPolygon()' using someone's code, I'd much rather create my own 'drawGouraudShadedPolygon()' even if it would be almost exactly like the other guys code. So basically I'm on a quest for knowledge. I'm not saying that you shouldn't use Java3D, for most people it must be an excellent api, but I like to rotate my points my way.
Who knows, maybe I'll start using Java3D someday, but for now my work involves servlets and I do graphics programming on my own time.
Also, the topic was meant to incite people to read this post, but I guess it wasn't that effective. I was curious about the number of posters on this forum that's all.
regards Jussi
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Anything could be useless or useful depending on your
First, what do you want to do with Java3D? If you
want to do like I am doing, controlling 16,000 squares
each with boundries on all four sides, each with sound
and each with four links to executable programs and
100MB of graphics tied to full featured multimedia
advertised in a virtual city that can turn so fast you
get dizzy on a 3 year old ATI Rage Fury with a 450MHz
Pentium running as an APPLICATION, then I guess it is
okay. (PS the entire program is only 46KB less
pictures, audio and the runtime for Java2, Java3D and
DirectX.)
If you are trying to run a 1MB ten frame cartoon down
a 28K modem to a 486 60MHZ computer as an Applet then
you may have some unhappy customers.
Why do you stress if it's an applet or an application?
You can distribute both types painlessly via Web Start.
It is even possible (while not strictly legal until the Sun .jars are released) to deploy to a box that has no Java3d installed, beaming the necessary Java3d files over with Web Start too.
Although I managed to do this only for Win32 so far.
Linux still gives troubles.
More details in the Web Start forum.
Regards,
Marc
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Kayaman
Posts:2,521
Registered: 7/18/01
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I want to see you people do some shading!
Gimme gouraud, gimme phong, then add some environment mapping...(use whatever tools you want to)
:)
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Hi
16,000 squares ? hmmm what i'm doing wrong?
I want to use J3D to visualize data
so i map data to 3d coord's
and lets say 100*100*x cones ( i use the cone from www.j3d.org/ (16 shapes) package org.j3d.geom)
under win me and win 2000 (132mb amd2-400mhz)
with directX8.1 and a 32mb graphiccard (tnt2 nvidia)
i get a bad performance when i use my mousebehaviours (rot,trans,zoom)+pick
i need almost all capability bits set because i need detach/attach and pick.
i need
pickCanvas.setMode(PickCanvas.GEOMETRY_INTERSECT_INFO);
is THIS? the main slow down?
can i speed up? ( i speak about the code not the hardware ;-) )
or is java3d only for 10*10*cones ? :-(
thanks Harry
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genus1
Posts:39
Registered: 9/12/99
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Marc,
In answer to your question
Why do you stress if it's an applet or an
application?
Because I manage 100 to 650 MB of multimedia within a 3D virtual world. The program runs fine as an applet but you cannot reasonably expect someone to spend two weeks downloading the data. I know if you have a T1 that is not a problem but most people still run at 28K. Also applications let you get ahold of the entire machine for creating and removing files.
Web Start is a super program and I use or will use it for many of my programs. It is especially good for configuration control when you use multiple vendors like I do. I need Corel, Sun, Borland and Microsoft engines all at the same time. Now I do not need to worry about what version is current.
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genus1
Posts:39
Registered: 9/12/99
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Buy an nVidia Gforce 3, Install Direct X and use Java3D to make simple calls. This will do 30 million triangle a second. The last cartoon movie where all the characters looked real were rendered with the Gforce3. I cannot remember the name of the movie, it had a troll in it and all the fairytale characters.
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genus1
Posts:39
Registered: 9/12/99
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How are you picking the data? (cones?) Are you using scheduling bounds and behaviours. If so this could be your major slow down.
Are you using DirectX or OpenGL?
PS the 16,000 squares are controlled without using scheduling bounds so it is very fast.
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Kayaman
Posts:2,521
Registered: 7/18/01
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How about doing the shadings by hand?
I'm pretty sure we won't see any large projects done in Java3d for a while (I mean like computergfx cartoons).
Anyhow, I don't give a rats *** about Java3d. I'm a damn lazy coder, so it's a wonder I get anything done.
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